Many say that " olympic judo " killed the real judo-spirit as it was meant to be by Kano .

Do you think that sports ju- jutsu as it is becoming more popular every day , will make an end to the real koryu styles ?

I don't believe that the sports themselves are "killing" their classical predecessors. Rather, the creation and existance of these martially based sports are a reflection of society's changing needs. Society no longer needs to train for hand-to-hand combat with armored opponents, but the basics of jujutsu are sound and interesting, and make for a lively sport application whether as judo or as rule-based ring jujutsu. So, the art lives on as sport, long after its usefulness as a war tool has ended.

The classical forms will probably continue to be preserved by small pockets of practitioners who love the traditional arts. It's pretty much the same way with any ancestral art or craft that has become obsolete under changing circumstances, but which still has such a sound set of principles or practices that some consider them worth retaining. There are still groups that preserve Renaissance music and dance, groups who forge Japanese katana and other weapons that have long been out of use, groups that use ancient methods of horticultural practice, blacksmithing, etc., etc.

Who knows --- if we ever have some catastrophe that boots humankind back into a low-tech way of life, some of these skills will regain their usefulness. ;)

We need a sense of history. Technology killed the koryu styles. Didn't you see The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise? Good flick and one with a lot of messages I haven't seen discussed.

The koryu styles were obsolete circa the late 1800's. They are even more obsolete now. Sport arts have nothing to do with it.

I don't think those who are involved and invested in Koryu Bujutsu styles really give the matter much consideration.

And if you don't mind my asking Mr. Chesser, why do you consider Koryu styles obsolete?

In my personal opinion I think they have much to offer.

I think, that like TBone says, most people in koryu probably do not give a lot of consideration to that issue.

Motivation to koryu is typically quite different. Koryu people often have a larger interest to Japanese culture, Japanese language, less about winning medals. The idea of fighting, and ... "what you can do with that skill" is a feeling that often fades after a certain age. I would hope that most 50 year olds here do not regularly get into fights anymore, and koryu people too realize that most attackers today do no longer use kusarigama, or katana or whatever, but automated guns.

Many gendai budo, are changing into something that I would call "hyper-gendai budo" or perhaps "shinshin-budo". Some feel that as a loss of authenticity, and luckily that aspect is preserved better in koryu. The sometimes somewhat sad characteristic is that Western koryu adepts may develop into fanatics, giving the ryu and almost sectarian character.

There are also koryu systems that just plain contain remarkable body skills that are totally absent in gendai arts and sports. Those that have them recognize their power and value, and are committed to preserving them and passing them on. Value is placed on the koryu for themselves.

Race cars are faster than race horses and reflect humans' mechanical cleverness and ability to create faster, more efficient conveyances. But race horses are still creatures of great speed and beauty that have not gone out of fashion.

I was taught that Kano himself was responsable for many of the changes to judo, as he wanted it to be an olympic sport. I was also told that untill he did, judo was pretty much a 50-50 groundwork-standing mix but many things such as dragging opponents to the ground, pulling guard and all that stuff encouraged by Fusen Ryu was phased out to make it a more interesting spectator sport.

In fact he was in favor of more tachiwaza than newaza... Some of his greatest students thought differently... He allowed and inspired different viewpoints... He believed in the Olympics as an ideal, a belief in the human being cooperation through sport, as it turned out, the Olympics are about winning, and winning alone, over any costs, and much about politics!!!

He would never ever believe in the Olympics of Today...

Whether or not they have much to offer isn't really the point as I see it. They have been obsolete as combat arts for a very long time and sport arts had nothing much to do with the obsolescence. Technology moved on.

I could argue that riding a horse to the nearest store has a lot to offer but doing so has now been replaced by other means of transportation. Horseback riding as a means of transportation has become obsolete just like Western fencing and the Koryu arts have become obsolete as battlefield arts.

From what I read about Kano, he was never found of Judo becaming an olimpic sport. He was from IOC, work hard for representing japan, but, he always told that , if Judo became merely and sport, it would lose it's value.
That's a lot of what we see nowadays. Judo is losing it's value.

I know someone who fights in the current war who might dissagree with you that Koryu are obsolete, the chances of engageing in H2H combat aside (a decent enough chance in urban enviroments and room clearing) Koryus give you a good mental attitude for combat. It reenforces the willingness to close with the enemy and kill him, be it with a radio and an airstrike/ artillery barrage, a Tank, a M-4 carbine or your hands, feet and teeth.

You could get the same mental benefits from the bayonet course in basic training. That's why it's still kept around. But the bayonet course only takes a few days to learn, isn't surrounded by secrecy and cultural baggage, etc.

Things have moved on.

A crash coarse is a poor substitute for an actual ongoing or long studied activity, some people like to go further than baseline, some people aspire to be the best they can in their endeavours, some are Elite. As for secracy and baggage, it depends on who you train with. The foundr of MCMAP is a Koryu practitioner, as well as a Jujutsuka/Judoka/Karateka and is at the pinicle of his chosen profession. To each his own, but there is no reason to disparage artys that have seen battle or those who are curently fighting who find the older arts have a positive effect upon their performance and survival. Your profile mentions Taiji and Bagua, many would say the World has moved on from those arts as well, many schools of those arts have a whole Mule train of baggage and would seek to turn you into an Asian. Many of schools of those arts are also very open and practicle, it's where you go, who you train with and who you are that matters in the end.