Hello everyone,

I have just started attending Jiu-Jitsu classes to supplement my Judo. My intent is to help improve my conditioning and my ground work. My concern is that some Jiu-Jitsu moves/techniques may not be acceptable or legal in Judo. I was wondering if there is some list somewhere that might list these techniques. Also, what do you all think is the best way to prevent techniques from crossing over form one form to the other?

Thanks,

Dave

techniques banned (mostly) in judo:

techniques targeting the shoulder exclusively - must be at least partly an elbow lock, ideally mostly
leglocks of all kinds including hip and ankle locks
spine and neck locks
wrist locks
techniques involving manipulating the mask of the face - no crossfacing, no pulling up on the forehead to set up a hadaka jime
chokes involving the skirt of the gi



and what do you mean by prevent techniques from crossing over? from my first impression of what you mean by that, I'd wonder why you would want to prevent techniques from being used in both.

Thanks for the list.

What I mean by techniques crossing over is just that. As I learn new techniques in Jiu-Jitsu and use them during practice sessions, I want to ensure I don't allow those prohibited in Judo from crossing over into my Randoi and or shiai. The legal techniques I definitely want to bleed over both ways.

Thanks,

Dave

Judo allows arm locks and strangles.

Jiu Jitsu does loads of these.

Jiu Jitsu is a great way to work on your newaza. Enjoy!

I've added BJJ too. It adds some new stuff-- some is legal in judo and some is not but its fun to learn and apply it all anyway. I also find it a different but good workout. Finally, it is changing my perspective on newaza a lot. I think the combo of judo and BJJ is a good one.

Adding to that BJJ people usally do the Sankaku Jime (Trinagle Choke) pulling the head down with the hands, what is not allowed in Judo, as manipulating the sipine/neck. Also Judo rules says that standing armlocks must have control (not talking abou flying stuff), like if uke doesn´t fall he will break his arm.
And in Judo Shiai you will be penalized for pulling guard (buttflopping).

Your sensei should be able to tell you what you can and cant use in judo. You need to ask him.

Yeah, I have been talking with him on the issue as well.

Thanks,

Dave

be prepared to have bad calls against you and older senseis giving you crap all the time.

I feel like your BJJ has a lot more to gain from Judo than vice versa, but thats only me.

90% of the common subs in BJJ are legal in Judo. The only one I can think of you will have problems with is (possibly) the omoplata.

Nothing to worry it about. It will help your newaza. You are doing a good thing.

I'm also one who is considering going into it to supplement my Judo. God knows i need to work on my ground skills. Have you all enjoyed it thus far? How many hours a week do you practice both?

My judo club does submission-only newaza, so I haven't felt the need to "supplement" anything. But if you have the itme and money, depending on the club, it could be a good thing for you to work on your newaza.

Thanks all for the great input. I find I am gaining a better understanding of my abilities and a greater spatial awareness since taking some BJJ sessions.

TeamMinions,

Currently I attend 2-3 judo sessions a week and 1-2 BJJ session. The BJJ sessions are before and after the Judo sessions so it makes it convenient for timing and location. All the sessions I go to are 1.5 hours each, and never 2 days in a row. The deciding factor on when I go and how many I go to is how I feel physically. If I have a very strenuous Judo session or BJJ session I may take a day off from training to let my body heal. Hopefully as my body gets more in shape and used to the workouts I can attend them with out needing down time. :-)

Dave

I am very interested if anyone has official information regarding the following moves being illegal:

1.) Pulling down on the head to sink in a triangle choke. ( Also what about a vertical foot choke where you place the top of your foot under uke's neck in the guard and pull down on the head to apply the choke )
2.) Choking with the skirt of the uniform. ( I always thought that you could use any part of the uniform to apply a choke as long as the choke was not "all material" ie you had to have a hand in there somewhere so you wern't just wrapping the material around the persons neck and tugging on it. )

I have recently been integrating both of these into my groundwork and have never heard of them being illegal. I would be interested if anyone has documentation to show this. I couldn't find anything regarding this in the IJF competition rules. I might have missed it though its been a few months since I looked it over.

Thanks

Wrestlers have no subs tho and they do pretty good in newaza.

I'm not a fan of submission only as it might prep you too well also for sub only matches? I like scores for what seems similar in control, heavily.

Of course tho, it might be of huge benefit to a wrestler.lol

Sempinsenzai,

I am by no means an expert but i do believe it is illegal to use the skirt of the Gi to apply chokes. Also, I would think pulling on the head may be illegal but not for sure. I will ask my Sensei next time I am in class. Maybe someone here can inform us as well.

Dave

With our club's submission only rule, it means you have to get pins anyways in order to start fishing for subs, so it's just simply better training.

Regrading the Jiu-jitsu as cross training, what the BJJ guys on these forums tell me is that BJJ has a more developed guard-play game, something beyond what you can find in judo, including lots of plays and counter-plays. So this will benefit your newaza a lot - you'll be better able to pass guard or sweep from guard, and to get submissions from there easier.

Thanks Dave! I will await your response.

From the IJF rules (prohibited acts):

19) To apply Shime-waza using the bottom of the jacket or belt, or using only the fingers.

Thanks. Thats too bad though there are so many great techniques that can be applied in this manner. Guess I will have to modify some stuff now.

"I am very interested if anyone has official information regarding the following moves being illegal:

1.) Pulling down on the head to sink in a triangle choke. ( Also what about a vertical foot choke where you place the top of your foot under uke's neck in the guard and pull down on the head to apply the choke )"


Pulling the head is illegal, it's considered "neck crank", Judo rules dont allow this.

in most BJJ tournaments (under CBJJ) neck crank is allowed only for BBs. some referee (personal interpretation) consider it improper to lower belts but will alow the move to certain degree, in blue, purple and brown divisions.

in no gi tournaments its a free move (almost everything is permitted). many BJJ today trains no gi, so some movements that are inicialy illegal are becoming more common on practice and tournaments (With gi). (and referees are becoming more open to certain moves)

personaly im seeing more people who dont know gi rules in BJJ. even intructors.

Incorrect, CBJJ rules have the same regulations regarding neck cranks at every adult belt level. 'Pure' neck cranks are illegal, but incidentally neck cranking someone while choking them is fine:
http://www.ibjjf.org/rules.htm