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Maxis500
Anyone out there doing judo and karate who has successfully incorporated judo techniques into karate (Shotokan) sparring? If so what have you had success with? I've made a few techniques work quite effectively but am trying to think if there is anything else I'm missing.

I'm 1st Dan Judo 3rd Kyu Karate by the way. Good news is: general observation: Judo fitness cool.gif - average Karateka nowhere like as fit as average Judoka;

Things that have worked:

Leg grabs from roundhouse kicks - then throw with ko-ouchi gari

De-ashi barai, by taking the leading hand/sleeve as they step forward, driving it downwards with a stiff arm to further unbalance and sweeping. This can be done onehanded with the other hand ready to strike the head as they go down.

Grabbing and pulling forward sleeve so that essentially you tai-sabaki to their outside and strike to the head as they step through

Generally lots from up close - lots of Karateka get flustered by the closeness that a judoka can "operate", as long as you can through their normal comfort zone.

Anyone got anything else to suggest technique wise?
vanish/doom
QUOTE(Maxis500 @ Apr 2 2008, 03:50 PM) *
Anyone out there doing judo and karate who has successfully incorporated judo techniques into karate (Shotokan) sparring? If so what have you had success with? I've made a few techniques work quite effectively but am trying to think if there is anything else I'm missing.

I'm 1st Dan Judo 3rd Kyu Karate by the way. Good news is: general observation: Judo fitness cool.gif - average Karateka nowhere like as fit as average Judoka;

Things that have worked:

Leg grabs from roundhouse kicks - then throw with ko-ouchi gari

De-ashi barai, by taking the leading hand/sleeve as they step forward, driving it downwards with a stiff arm to further unbalance and sweeping. This can be done onehanded with the other hand ready to strike the head as they go down.

Grabbing and pulling forward sleeve so that essentially you tai-sabaki to their outside and strike to the head as they step through

Generally lots from up close - lots of Karateka get flustered by the closeness that a judoka can "operate", as long as you can through their normal comfort zone.

Anyone got anything else to suggest technique wise?


This video says more than I ever could:

revil
That video is nice. But that song really makes it! does anyone know the name of that song?
NBK
QUOTE(Maxis500 @ Apr 3 2008, 12:50 AM) *
Anyone out there doing judo and karate who has successfully incorporated judo techniques into karate (Shotokan) sparring? ...........

Yes, it's been done. And practiced globally.

Most famously and AFAIK most completely in Hironori Otsuka sensei's Wado ryu karatedo. It is a fusion of Karate and jujutsu. Not done AFAIK so much in Shotokan karatedo.

Have fun.
judokamatt
first off i want to clearify that i dont know jack about shotokan shia or sparring rules but if its any thing like that video then i know these could be useful

i know all of these worked well for me when i was training MMA back when i had first started training judo

from the clinch
~haria goshi
~uchi mata
~o goshi
~ippon sieo nage
~double and single legs
~kata gruma
~~the trick is wrist control and shoulder control when workong without the gi, but since you are in gi's i think all of these would both get your opponent down to the ground as well as put you in a favorable posistion for some arm locks as well as ground n pound

outside of the clinch
~when a punch is thrown ippon sieo nage
--~kata gruma
~when a kick is thrown kouchi gari and o uchi gari
--~hand wheels around the neck and in between the legs when a kick is caught puts yuo in side control and bangs the hell out of them :)

thats all i can think of at the moment but im sure their are a bajillion others
sandanju
That's exactly what Jon Bluming did in his Kyukushin budokai karate , altough based on Kyokushinkai karate instead of shotokan . I think he has schools in the USA.
kosen666
QUOTE(revil @ Apr 2 2008, 04:27 PM) *
That video is nice. But that song really makes it! does anyone know the name of that song?



I believe the song is Our World by Rammstein
Brian S
QUOTE(Maxis500 @ Apr 2 2008, 10:50 AM) *
Anyone out there doing judo and karate who has successfully incorporated judo techniques into karate (Shotokan) sparring? If so what have you had success with? I've made a few techniques work quite effectively but am trying to think if there is anything else I'm missing.

I'm 1st Dan Judo 3rd Kyu Karate by the way. Good news is: general observation: Judo fitness cool.gif - average Karateka nowhere like as fit as average Judoka;

Things that have worked:

Leg grabs from roundhouse kicks - then throw with ko-ouchi gari

De-ashi barai, by taking the leading hand/sleeve as they step forward, driving it downwards with a stiff arm to further unbalance and sweeping. This can be done onehanded with the other hand ready to strike the head as they go down.

Grabbing and pulling forward sleeve so that essentially you tai-sabaki to their outside and strike to the head as they step through

Generally lots from up close - lots of Karateka get flustered by the closeness that a judoka can "operate", as long as you can through their normal comfort zone.

Anyone got anything else to suggest technique wise?


Most karateka aren't fit, you are right.

As I get along in judo I will try to integrate it into my karate sparring. Our karate sparring is mma'ish anyway. smile.gif
BJJ+judo=ultimate
QUOTE(Brian S @ Apr 15 2008, 10:04 PM) *
Most karateka aren't fit, you are right.

As I get along in judo I will try to integrate it into my karate sparring. Our karate sparring is mma'ish anyway. smile.gif

I think it depends where you train karate. On human weapon they were very challenged by the traditional okinawa karate workouts. Here is an awesome video of a good point karate fighter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESudu4Iwz-w If anyone knows how to embed that would be great.
Brian S
QUOTE(BJJ+judo=ultimate @ Apr 15 2008, 07:33 PM) *
I think it depends where you train karate. On human weapon they were very challenged by the traditional okinawa karate workouts. Here is an awesome video of a good point karate fighter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESudu4Iwz-w If anyone knows how to embed that would be great.



True, hence the word "most."
Brian S
QUOTE(Brian S @ Apr 15 2008, 07:52 PM) *
True, hence the word "most."



I noticed during tonight's training that I was 'rooting' as done in Sanchin kata(Goju) during randori. This not only made ot more difficult to throw me,but also helped in my counters.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Judoforlife
Ive just recently started taking private lessons in Seibukan Shorin-Ryu, its taking some getting used to the static style of training. Have been working on what is referred to as "moving drills" and working on learning Wanshu Kata. Very different from the dynamic training that we Judoka all know and love.
HALFORD JONES
Those who indulge in the classical systems of karate know that throws and grappling and various holds,etc. are done and can be found in a number of kata in various styles and schools but strictly speaking are part of OKINAWAN styles rather than JAPANESE, although Master Funakoshi demonstrated some of these things. You can go to the website of; the HAWAII KARATE MUSEUM at http://museum.hikari.us/ and go to the rare book sections and see things there plus other areas of interest.
Upper Valley Judo
When I trained in Shotokan, the karateka were in good shape. I can't speak for your local McDojo, but all of the Shotokan stylists I met trained hard. That's not to say they went at it like in that video, but they would do hundreds of kicks, etc. every practice. It was definitely a good workout.

Hayward Nishioka won the Nisei Week Shotokan Karate tournament (http://www.maryknollkarate.com/Niseiweekmain.htm) as a white belt in karate by throwing everyone he went against. This was a long time ago, and I don't think they permit throwing with the same level of enthusiasm any more, but I could be wrong. smile.gif
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