From what I understand, Sambo is much like judo, with allowance for more inclusive gripping, leg locks, better scores for takedowns and longer allowance for groundwork. There is of course the combative side of sambo, with kicks and punches.

If one were interested in "dirty judo", combative aspects etc how well do you feel one would be served by sambo? I know judo has these things as well, but they seem to be trained much less often in judo then they are in sambo.

Folks often think of Sombo as a child of judo. Truth be told, there are connections which are obvious, but Sombo has as heavy of inclusions from a variety of Central Asian wrestling, as well as Western Wrestling. In truth, I find the two similar in many ways, but not so similar in as many ways. There is cross-over no question, but there is from freestyle as well.

I got started in Sombo in '97 while living in Mongolia. I mostly played sport sombo at the National hall in UB, but did a little bit of the "combat" stuff with the police in UB as well. The combat stuff seemed decent and was a lot of fun. I think I had the most fun with the third party rescue stuff.

Aaron Fields

"If one were interested in "dirty judo", combative aspects etc how well do you feel one would be served by sambo? I know judo has these things as well, but they seem to be trained much less often in judo then they are in sambo."


Ive dabbled a bit in Sambo... i say by far an interesting Grappling system. Most of the Sambits or samboka tend to be very strong to compare (not to bash) it's over all Newaza is stronger than Judo's Newaza due to leg,hip and toe holds. Despite the "myth" most or the samboka ive rolled with went more for Arm bars than Leg locks.

for Combative Aspects it depends on who you is your teacher like those R.O.S.S guys a lot of there Combat sambo looks very much like JKD with FMA or some pretty much aikijujitsu with a judo blend.


very strong style of grappling no wonder Fedor is king.

Except Sambo doesn't have chokes (shime waza). There is combat Sambo, which was taught to the former Soviet Spetznatz troops, and there is also Combat Judo, which has been taught to American special forces troops. And as far as I'm concerned, Combat Sambo/Judo is simply Ju-Jutsu (or Aiki-jutsu).



Again, down and dirty Judo is simply Ju-jutsu, or Aiki-jitsu (a gendai art reverts to a koryu art).

Sambo doesn't allow strangles or chokes: a serious omission.

I was talking to a samboist a few weeks ago, and he thought the Japanese are 'crazy' for making a sport that allows chokes! He felt the leg locks of sambo are pretty tame and safe in comparison.

LOL. Truth. It don't get much more 'down' than choking. And the darn knuckling in the face to get one.

One thing to note about Sambo is that you rarely see a pure Sambo stylist anymore; from what I've heard, alot of Sambists train in Judo an Jiu-Jitsu as well as Sambo( Look at Oleg Taktarov for example.).

Sambo as a grappling style is known for its leglocks( Like Judo for its throws). I don't know for sure, but I think some Sambo schools train chokeholds, despite that they're not allowed in competition.

One thing about Sambo that gets me down is that people associate it with Systema. I think Sambo is an effective, legitimate martial art style. From what I've seen from Systema and related styles, it looks like a variation of Aikido and is practiced by people who think they're learning a deadly style because they wear camo while training.

Quick note: Sambo very much trains chokes and strangles, many the same as Judo...it's just not allowed in Sports Sambo matches.

Sambo is a great art. It can certainly be dirty, but so can Judo with just a handful of additional techniques and the right attitude.

Neither of these arts are simply Ju-justu or Aikijujutsu...especially true for Sambo.

Just to add to the discussion. Sambo is short for Samo-obrana, which simply means self-defence. Sambo was designed as a Russian army empty hand fighting system soon after the end of WW2. The system definitely included Judo techniques and other native wrestling techniques form central Asian republics. Why does it have arm and leg locks and not chokes? Well apparently the Russian army instructors decided that choking someone on the battlefield is not time efficient however braking someone leg puts him out of fight almost instantly.


Here are some Judo techniques demonstrated by Russian Sambo practitioners.
http://www.suginoharyu.com/html/index.html

Cheers

sambo is a mix between judo and wrestling for sure. What was remarkable to me is that every sambo man ive encountered so far, were all physically very strong. While in judo you tend to have a wider range of body types, imo.

Good point. I think I have noticed that by watching them. Seems very power judo.

Just minor corrections: Sambo actually means "Self Defense Without Weapons" and it certainly includes chokes, especially in Combat Sambo...Sport Sambo includes them too, but they are not trained as much because they are not allowed in competition.

I always thought that sambo was created right after the russo japanese war and before ww2.

Which central/siberian/slavic native wrestling style has leglocks?

Here's the deal, 'dirty judo' is really judo in it's purest form without actually being jujitsu. The form is called goshin jitsu developed by Jigoro Kano before he created sport judo which is what is practiced up until the olympic level. It includes strikies, grappling, arm and leg bars, and choking. It's everything you need to defend yourself without taking it to the next level (killing someone). I think they teach skin grabs and things of that nature as well, but don't quote me on that portion.

That's why I bought all of Igor Yakimov's DVDs. I figured stuff like his leg lock DVDs were the leg locks that judo used to allow but no longer does. Seems that perhaps sambo (and BJJ) preserved them while they have largely died out in the mainstream judo world.

Sambo doesn't allow chokes. Chokes are thought of as "unsportsmanlike" and are banned from Sambo.

I think chokes are much more important than leglocks.

who said BJJ perserved Judo's leg locks??? For almost 100 years BJJ had a ban on leg locks... They were despised as the tool of the coward or traitor... Only very recently they started to be allowed, and now are actively taught at the schools... In Brazil it was Luta Livre Esportiva that developed many, many variations on leg locks and BJJ was able to get them back, well preserved and researched only, and only because of all the people of Luta Livre Esportiva...

The power is a cultural aspect; most russian judo players are physically strong whether they have trained sambo or not; a major difference is in the movement and tempo; sambo tends to be more static for 2 main reasons 1. The wrestling mat as opposed to a tatami makes movement and ashiwaza more difficult 2. The thin jackets with a looped tied belt are much more restrictive and makes grip breaking more difficult; also you can keep any grip for as long as you want; this therefore provides a more static type of match.

It probably is true that russian judo and sambo is often more tense and power oreintated than japanese style judo; but dont be fooled into thinking its not technical; some very interesting variations of techniques; after all sambo was developed for the european physique unlike judo which is designed for the japanese body type.

I have a guy from Kyrgystan who's a product of the Soviet/Russian style and I find that true too. He still encourages me to be loose, get that technique in, but really motivates me and shows me how to really bring that power into play. This is good, as I'm actually pretty strong for my size and I would love to use all advantages available.

Not entirely true, while sport Sambo does not allow chokes, many people compete under freestyle and combat Sambo which does allow chokes.

It's also true that most worldclass Sambo players also do Judo. To assume that somebody can't choke because they do Sambo is incorrect and probably dangerous

Of course.

It's like assuming our judo club only does elbow locks and chokes. We don't just do them, we do just about everything imaginable - leg locks, neck cranks, wrist locks etc.

I think the combat sambo rules also allow striking, making them MMA rules.

I have posted this before so forgive me if it's repetitive. In all my training trips to Russia (10 to date, going back in May ) the judo and sambo guys always trained together. In the vast majority of the practices all submissions (armlocks, chokes, leglocks) were accepted which made for very interesting randori sessions.

JCRAIG80 was correct in his assessment about Russian judoka being strong but they are very technical. In my opinion It requires more skill to execute a Gadavlia than it does an uchimata. I've seen Russian guys throw a classical judo technique and then perform a sambo type technique. They can seemingly throw from any grip.

Dynamo; whats your opinion on the new judo rule with regard to grabbing the pants leg before attacking? IMO it is a deliberate attempt to stop the gadavlia use in judo contest; similar to when kawazu-gake was banned in judo a few years ago; IMO to stop the japanese being thrown with a technique they were not familiar with.

I think it is a shame if gadavlia is not present in future judo contests; in sambo they dont have the pants to grip; do you know where the free hand is used in this case?

I don't like any of the rule changes, IMO they're ruinning judo. I think they (the IJF) should leave us alone and let us fight. The odd thing is that the IJF is run mainly by the Europeans so I don't think it's a Japanese conspiracy.

As for Gadavlia, in sambo the hand goes between the opponents legs or on the front of his hip. Thats the way my friend Igor Kurrinoy executes it and he has skyed me with it. The Gadavlia can still be performed legally in judo with some minor adjustments

you are right, in 1920's - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art)