Other than Chuck Liddell, who are some others in mma that does or has done Kenpo. Also do you guys think it is a style worth trying. RIFT, I think you know a little about this style. Any input on it. I am talking about the core of it, no fancy stuff.

did chuck do kenpo or kempo? they're a bit different from one to the other, some of my friends said the chinese one (kenpo) does grappling later in the system and the japanese version is mostly just a hard style of karate.

I was refering to Ed Parkers American Kenpo.

The Iceman didn't do kenpo or kempo. It's a common misconception. Chuck Liddell actually did Koei Kan Karate.

I thought Mr. Liddell's main skill was in freestyle 'collegiate' wrestling? I've never heard of Koei Kan Karate - can you describe its kata? Thanks!

Why does he have a kempo tatoo.

You're probably my favorite poster on the internet.


The people who seriously agree with you make me sad though.

Well put...

http://koei-kan.com/KoeiKanKarate.aspx

not a minute away on google.

I think I now know why Mr. Chuck Liddell does so well in his MMA matches, it is because of his Koei Kan Karate training - PLEASE NOTE:

"Kata is stressed in the Koei-Kan system to develop speed, timing, coordination, balance, focus, precise breathing, eye contact, and quick reflexes. Koei-Kan teaches the history and origin of kata, and their practical importance. Five Naha-te kata created by Kanryo Higashionna and 16 Shuri-te kata created by Yasutsune Itosu are taught."


O.K. you MMA guys, if you want to improve your ring fighting performance, you need to do lots and lots of kata!


P.S. http://koei-kan.com/KoeiKanKarate.aspx Thanx for the link Dutch!

chuck liddell does so well because he is a great grappler. he won't submit you, but there is no way you can keep him on the ground if you do manage a successful shoot. I wouldn't call those wild hooks he throws karate, so lets not get carried away with this thread

Yet it was relayed that Mr. Chuck Liddell did study a style of karate, Koei-Kan, which places a great emphasis on Kata.

Actually the distinguishing feature of Koei Kan is the fact that they train full contact by utilizing bugei gear instead of focusing on kata and point sparring. Which would explain his success in MMA much more than kata. Especially since kata contains so many deadly techniques that aren't allowed in sports.

Not according to this site: http://koei-kan.com/KoeiKanKarate.aspx

It seems that kata training and history are emphasized in this style.

Well I gained my info from the talking to the sensei of the Koei Kan dojo down the street from my house for about an hour when I was thinking about taking classes there before I started judo. But to each his own.

Lots of people do taikwondo as a kid and then switch to kickboxing or MT. Does this mean we attribute their standup skills to TKD? Sure, they might have improved flexibility and a larger variety of techniques, but their standup probably involves more pure kickboxing or TKD. When you see Liddell fight, what does it look like? Karate or Kickboxing...? I haven't seen every karate style on the planet, but i have seen a lot of full-contact karate sparring, and what Liddell does looks nothing even closely resembling Karate.

"standup probably involves pure kickboxing or TKD" .... meant kickboxing or muay thai, but u get the point

which is evidenced by his "KEMPO" tattoo, right? Liddell trained Hawaiian Kempo. He's said it himself in interviews.

Is this what you're talking about with Hawaiian Kempo: http://www.knucklepit.com/mixed-martial-ar...n_hackleman.htm

If Hawaiian Kempo is truely kempo, and not just a euphemism for kick boxing or MMA, then it has lots of kata.

Therefore if Mr. Chuck Liddell is a practitioner or any kind of Kempo, then he has done kata. And I would make the claim that kata has helped Mr. Liddell in his MMA endeavours.

And you would be wrong. There is no Kempo in the Pit. He may have done kata. So have I. Doesn't mean it's helped my fighting. Chuck's biggest skills are his powerful but unorthodox striking and his wrestling. The striking he learned in the Pit, the wrestling on a mat. No kata in either of those places.

Edit: After posting, I decided to take a look at this site you posted. THANK YOU TEDDY!!!!! I'd like to submit the following quote from that page:

"Back when I was about eight or nine years of age I started doing Judo – mainly for self defence and to learn how to fight. Martial arts was all I ever did. In high school I was already a Golden Gloves boxer and I was fighting in kickboxing. That was my whole sporting thing. Judo was my first style and then I did Shotokan Karate. I continued with Judo for a little while and was doing Kaju Kenbo at the same time. I stayed with my instructor, Walter Godin, from when I was nine or ten until he died two years ago," says Hackleman.

A mixture of Karate, Judo, Kempo and boxing, Kaju Kenbo originated in Hawaii in 1947. The system was created by five martial artists who wanted to improve their street-fighting techniques, and the style has grown in popularity internationally ever since.

Due to his outstanding contribution to the art, 10th degree black belt John Hackleman will be inducted into the Kaju Kenbo Hall of Fame in July, 2004.

"In 1985, when I moved from Hawaii to California, I switched it from Kaju Kenbo to Hawaiian Kempo. I added some things to it, took away some things and started calling it Hawaiian Kempo. I took out the katas and the forms and I threw in more natural fighting techniques and conditioning. Now that’s my style. Like if you see Chuck (Liddell) with the tattoo on his arm, that’s the logo for my school."

Hackleman says back in the ‘90s other martial artists began calling their style Hawaiian Kenpo, but he is the only instructor to spell his Hawaiian Kempo with an ‘m’. In Japanese, the letters ‘m’ and ‘n’ have the same symbol, so the art can be spelt either way. John has been spelling his art as Kempo since 1985.

"Ours is a little more hardcore. In Hawaiian Kenpo they still do forms and stuff like that. When you see the guys such as Chuck fighting, that’s Hawaiian Kempo. Mine has always been a mixed martial art ever since I started it."

TOOK OUT THE KATAS, ADDED MORE NATURAL TECHNIQUES. IN KENPO, THEY DO FORMS. NOT HACKLEMAN'S KEMPO. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I WIN!

So therefore it is not Kempo or kenpo! All styles of Kempo or kenpo have kata, so therefore Hawaiian Kempo is just a euphemism for MMA or kick boxing. The guy changed Kempo (or kenpo) into something not-kempo!

I'll trust the 10th degree black belt over you. The hall of famer. The guy who's proved he can produce effective fighters. The guy who's trained Kempo. For years.

He's another Phil Porter self congratulating himself with his own MA organization.

sorta like that Kano guy, huh?

Teddy wrote:

"He's another Phil Porter self congratulating himself with his own MA organization. "

So Teddy, do you have the same feelings for the founder of your own system, hakko- ryu jujitsu, which was founded in 1945 after he stole techniques from other real koryu styles?

You're comparing the founder of Kodokan Judo to Phil Porter? You really need to study your hoplology.

Kano did exactly what you're mad about the Gracies doing. I don't need to study some self-important pseudo-intellectual garbage, because I have a nice, big brain, and I've used that brain to logically analyze your arguments. It's awesome. You should try it. You're a coward. Rather than address the point, you fall back on your "read this, study hippety-hopology, blah blah blah..." garbage. You're a coward, a fraud, and a thug.

You lose again.

I just wanted to know if anyone thinks if Kenpo (Ed Parker`s) style has merit or not. Opinions and reasons why or why not.

one of the pink panther films shows Ed Parker doing his thing against some baddies.the style had some odd strikes [i say odd because the fist was open and the fingers almost claw like] and some big blocks.i think it was revenge of the pink panther;not 100% sure.

this does bring me to ask that age ole question though:curious?try it!

id like to try

muay thai ,but dont want a broken nose.
bjj,but dont want to be choke fodder for higher ranks.
chin na,but what can you do with it?
krav maga,but i hear its mostly keep fit.
catch as can,but do have to be mr big muscles?

EPAK is mainly practiced in a compliant manner using unrealistic attacks and thus responses. The end result being that the majority of practicioners can't fight.
Search youtube for "delayed sword" and you'll see what the majority of kenpo looks like.

There are supposedly a few guys (aren't there always, ) who train and spar hard. Lurking on bullshido I've seen a guy named clyde who claims to do so and who by all reports can fight as well. He's in San Diego though.

Even then though EPAK seems to emphasize things that would not typically be considered good under more open sparring/fighting rules (e.g. strongly sideways, one side dominant stance; low hands; backfists as opposed to jabs etc).

They also seem to require that the higher ranks have mullets and a fetish for striking to the nuts.

Do you have to be a squirell to practice it.

Ed Parker's Kenpo has merit because it is a street fighting style, it is not a ring fighting style and hopefully will never be a limited ring style.

What is equally important is that Ed Parker's Kenpo is still representative of Kenpo as a style, that is American Kenpo, like all Chinese derived atemi styles, contains circular blocks, open hand strikes, finger jabs, pressure point fighting, low strong horse stances, weapons defense and offensive training, defense against multiple attacks and kata.

Kenpo is not karate but more akin to kung fu, particularly Chuan fa , which is not the style of Chinese boxing which the Okinawans derived their Okinawan-te. In fact the word Kenpo (or Kempo) is simply a Japanese pronounciation of a Chinese word for 'way of the fist'.

I watched Billy Blanks teach Kempo in his dojo down in Quincy Massachusetts back in the 70s (he was very good) before he went out to Hollywood and got a few bit parts in some movies.

So to answer your question: Yes Ed Parker's Kenpo has merit if you want to learn to defend yourself in streetfights.

MT-train carefully
bjj-find a school where they'll help you learn rather than stroke their own egos
chin na-you can impress chicks at parties
krav maga-star in a movie with Jennifer Lopez
catch-the idea that those guys are just unskilled muscleheads is stupid. There's unbelievable technique there, and you don't have to be huge to pull it off.

By the looks of those clips, it looks like it tries to hit you with so many lite strikes as to overwhelme you. It just doesn`t seem to have anything with substance.

cheers,ritf.due to this heatwave,im seeing ma practice as a fall persuit!

heh. you'll build up to being able to tolerate more heat. Actually, that's what kept me out of MA for a number of years. Successfully going through a TKD program (oh, hush. I was a kid), but then I got heat stroke from working out in a hot gym during a heat wave. Scared to go back for several years. Now I'm a sauna monkey, I run in the wrestling room with multiple layers of sweats for cutting, etc. It's all about building up slowly. Good luck.

ritf,what do you think of mat furey's street grapple series?have you seen/heard of this?what do you think of him?the more i hear of catch [and living in the uk] the more i wish to try it.

Matt Furey is a charlatan.

Remember your golden gloves training? Throw bunches of punches! Well that is essentially the view of Kempo. Kempo is considered a 'soft' style of martial art (vs. a 'hard' style like Shotokan, Kyokushin, TKD, or even what's advocated in MMA), and all soft styles emphasize 'TECHNIQUE', to defeat strength with method and never to meet strength with strength.

Critics of Kempo say it has a lot of "hand-waving" - but that is the circular methodology of Kempo. Again, Kempo has a lot of open hand strikes and finger strikes and doesn't want to blugeon you to death with strength based waza.

If you don't believe that the limited MMA ring is the definitive test of any martial art then the street fighting methods of Kempo are worth learning. Warning: It takes a very long time to learn any martial art with proficiency.

Interesting, isn't it, that despite my size and strength advantage, that any 155-lb MMA champ (Jens Pulver, Gomi, Kid Yamamoto, etc.) could kick the living hell out of me. Why do you think that is, Ted?

Eherrrmmm.... in my best impersonating voice:

The answer is KATA!!!

Ahem Because you're not that good? Because you're indifferent to kata? Because you don't believe in Chi (Ki)? I'm sure there's a lot more reasons.

Teddy wrote:
Warning: It takes a very long time to learn any martial art with proficiency.

This is very true only if you're traiing in a 55y.o. pretend koryu style of jujutsu or similar art with a multitude of katas and step sparring. If you're actually training and developing proper timing and distancing using realistic techniques, then you'll develop proficiency fairly quickly and have excellent fundamental skills in about 1-1.5 years.

gunther,i had my nose damaged by bullies at jr high,hence the reason i dont want it re damaged.

yam whacky,gunthy!!

In a Utopian sort of way.

Ki, what a bunch of garbage. I do however believe in adrealene(spelling).I had a guy try to knock me out with that hoopla, after he woke up he believed more in a right hook.

Then please challenge Pulver and show me how it's done. And IF I'm "not that good" then all the more pitiful that you're showing this much jealousy of my ability.

Saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel regarding superhuman abilities - among other things, it featured George Dillman and another "master" knocking over/out large people or groups of people with chi. When the scientist documentarians offered themselves as willing victims, they seemed invulnerable to the attacks. When pressed for an explanation, Dillman said (along with some other babble about the placement of their toes or tongues nullifying the effects) that they weren't affected because "they didn't believe in it."

So evidently, they way to protect one's self from chi and other forms of pseudo-spiritual hooey, is to simply not believe in it.

Works for me!

Wow, talk about maximum efficiency with minimum effort.

LOL ^ That's pretty funny!!!

I don't subscribe to Chi (Ki) in the martial arts sense of the word. I think it is just a leftover effect of western enthusiasm for eastern mysticism.

Ironically the concept of Chi (Ki) is found in many religions and bears no association to fighting arts whatsoever in those religions.